Zarban wrote:Women's romance novels, which I hold to reveal the darkest heart of the female psyche, uniformly depict protagonist men as handsome, confident, and competent. On the few occasions when those novels depict sex graphically, it has become something of a scandal.
This makes me think that you have not read a lot of romance novels. Their depiction of men is hardly uniform, at least in the way you're describing. If you don't want to dive into that section of the library, I would recommend you check out Janice Radway's Reading the Romance, or perhaps Tania Modeleski's Loving With a Vengeance.
Also, what are you trying to prove with those magazine shots you're posting? Because all I'm seeing is that even women who run magazines have internalized the idea that everyone wants women filtered through the male gaze. Even Anna Wintour can be wrong.
avatar wrote:You have to admit that since Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, women are portrayed a lot less passively than in previous decades. Today they can be strong, independent, snarky, decisive, and confident.
Yeah, they can be. Are they? Or are Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor the minority? One, two, or ten examples doesn't mean sexism is over anymore than Uncle Tom's Cabin being popular meant racism was over. Women have a long way to go, especially in the media.
drewjmore wrote:I did not intend to limit the expression of sexism to only clothing, but clothing has been one of the many ways liberated women have expressed themselves. Rising hemlines, bikinis, these things happened as part of women's battle against sexism.
Y'all should check out the brilliant Ariel Levy and her book "Female Chauvinist Pigs" or this link that I posted earlier: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/2 … rheroine/.
It is the way in which these things are utilized that makes them empowering, not their presence. There is nothing inherently sexist or empowering about a bikini or a hijab. It is the way our culture views them and forces them onto us that makes them good or bad. Or forces them onto me, that is, speaking as the (only?) lady in this discussion.
On that note, I will probably bow out of this discussion soon. Being someone who has to deal with sexism and misogyny in this fandom, reading some of this is frustrating.
ETA:
Zarban wrote:But my point is only that all of this is a discussion about gender politics in Western culture that has almost nothing to do with this particular movie or with comic books.
Unless this movie was made in some vacuum where it was not influenced by Western culture or gender politics, this is wrong. If it was made in that way, please point me to that vacuum because I would love to live there, especially with Joss Whedon.
Last edited by Allison (2012-11-24 21:16:12)